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from www.ukpoliceonline.co.ukthe reply for those of you whos heads can take it, there is a 5 page debate about construction and use regs, the right of a copper to declare a mod as dangerous even though they aren't an engineer, and select other stuff. Theres also a rather odd and spurious assumption that such a modification wouldn't be declared to the insurers and thus would result in a charge of no insurance as well... but ignore that gaffe and its interesting reading. Not just because of the stretched tyres thing, but because of the interesting view of the way law is actually interpretted an enforced by coppers, barristers, solicitors rather than what we as lay people might take it to mean. Sorry if this is a repost cos I know this is one of "those" topics on here, but I thought I'd post it since it seems to contain actual legal opinion rather than the usual "that can't be safe, I don't like it" type chat we used to have around banded wheels. theres also a useful definition of how much tyre you can have protruding out of the wheel arch on page 2 of that thread.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Linky link?
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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horney™
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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arzbizkits, if I'd included the link that would have been a bit more helpful I *fail* again.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Horney, well done for asking the question although I question the sensibilities of using the most outrageous example you could find!
Can I also suggest that RRers don't join up just to put their point across unless they have some actual facts that are useful.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
Member is Online
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The thing that annoys me a bit is that in most cases the tyre being stretched is wider than the standard size tyre anyway. A mk1 golf for instance, will handle much better on a set of stretched 175/50s, rather than the 145 R13s they had standard.
Matt
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I think the point at issue is not the width comparitive to the original tyre, but the width of the tyre comparative to the specifications the tyre company has published for "safe" rim widths.
and rmad - yeah, its an old thread for a start, and its coppers for a second. Lets not go stir a hornet's nest....
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Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008 10:48:44 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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The thing that annoys me a bit is that in most cases the tyre being stretched is wider than the standard size tyre anyway. A mk1 golf for instance, will handle much better on a set of stretched 175/50s, rather than the 145 R13s they had standard. Matt Better handling is not the issue, a golf handles much better on racing tyres, be they slicks or wets depending on the weather, but they are still illegal for road use.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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That was good. Ta!. And as a bonus, there is a very thorough workthrough of the law regarding open/protruding wheels on pages 4 and 5. Most interesting reading...
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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horney™
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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Horney, well done for asking the question although I question the sensibilities of using the most outrageous example you could find! I chose that example as it was the one everyone was screaming about on Piston Heads at the time I asked the Q in the Police Forum. I was having one of those days when I was sick of the idiotic opinions of both sides being trotted out. "No ones died yet so it's safe" "Looks like they'll pop off the rim and kill everyone in a 5 mile radius" etc etc. Everyone at the time was banging on about what they had read where or what their mate down the pub had told them so I thought, sod it lets see what the boys in blue think. It's made an interesting read and I'm glad I posted it. Nick
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I'm glad you did too the world is full of people with opinions which are not based on any experiance or qualification. These news progarmmes which insist on giving half the show over to "Public opinion" are just as bad if not worse for encouraging it. Economy in crisis? Shall we have a statement from the treasury, or the monetary policy committee? Or in depth analysis from a city finance wizz or professor? Nope its a cabby or housewife moaning on about how its all the fault of "these Chinese innit" and "how am I gonna pay for my Sky Sports narrrr"
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Last Edit: Nov 5, 2008 10:58:30 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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It's made an interesting read and I'm glad I posted it. Nick Agreed.
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Looks to me like a copper can decide pretty much anything is dangerous and take you to court where his opinion would carry quite a lot of weight and leave you having to provide evidence or legal precedence that its not, worth bearing in mind i think.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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this is what I have often suspected but not really seen in writing. But I know that when every anyone gets a "too loud" exhaust I never heard of anyone successfully challenging what "too loud" is, for example. The copper says it is, so it is. Really.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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The only way for anything to be solved in this is to have an individual engineers report for every wheel and tyre combination!
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1997 TVR Chimaera 2009 Westfield Megabusa
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If someone with stretched tyres is CONFIDANT they wont come off under any conditions then its easy to prove.
Take the car to a large tarmac area and pull a handbrake turn at like 30 or 40 mph.
If the tyres stay on, well done, get a video.
If not then back tp properly sized tyres.
The only other issue is the protrusion.
IMO, its up to the driver to ensure themselves the car is safe.
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1985 Bedford CF2 camper 1991 Volvo 240 Turbo
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Haven't these people got the memo? Tuck is the new stretch... at least its within the law My new wheels will have sensible tyres because I want to go quickly round corners....
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horney™
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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The only way for anything to be solved in this is to have an individual engineers report for every wheel and tyre combination! I have to say Adam ti swas going to be my next prt of call. I was going to try and find an engineer or two to comment and then I was going to try and write up an article on it all and submit it to PVW or similar but I never got round to it. Nick
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